~ Duncan: Ministers should not be interrogated in Parliament ~
PHILIPSBURG--The meeting of the Central Committee of Parliament Friday became heated when National Alliance (NA) Members of Parliament (MPs) strongly objected to what they said was Justice Minister Roland Duncan's disrespect for MPs.
NA's outrage came after Duncan responded to some of the MPs' questions with terms such as "it's none of your business," "it's a stupid question," and used such terms as "nonsense" and "nonsensical."
Duncan later apologised twice to Parliament, but said Ministers were "not lackeys" or children and they should not be interrogated, questioned or berated in Parliament.
He was clearly incensed at the start of the meeting when National Alliance (NA) leader MP William Marlin was delivering his opening remarks giving an outline of what he called the BTA confusion. Minutes into Marlin's presentation Duncan objected and said that what Marlin had been saying had no relevance to the subject for which he had been called to Parliament. Duncan said he could not wait until the answer session to respond.
President of Parliament Gracita Arrindell attempted to stop Duncan to remind him that she had to give him the floor to speak. When she was successful, she urged everyone to adhere to the rules. The meeting proceeded without interruption until Duncan's response to some of the questions incensed some of the NA MPs.
In a firm statement after the first round Marlin said it was paramount for ministers to show MPs respect when they were called to Parliament. He alluded to the start of the meeting on Monday when Duncan had used the word "despicable" when addressing Parliament. When Marlin had raised the matter at that meeting, Duncan had later withdrawn the statement as well as the context within which he had made it.
Marlin said Friday that if addressing Parliament with words such as "stupid," "nonsense" and "nonsensical" was "the level that ministers will go to in here it will be a kangaroo court."
"I won't sit here and allow the minister to say that what we are saying is 'nonsense' and what we are saying is 'nonsensical' and 'it's none of your business,'" Marlin stressed.
Parliament, he added, was not being conducted "under a tree."
"I did not ask the minister where he went last night and what he ate. That's none of my business, but what he does with the [BTA] report is the people's business."
NA MP Louie Laveist said there appeared to be a misunderstanding about the respective responsibilities of MPs and ministers. He seconded the NA leader's "caution," saying "I want to make it absolutely clear that sometimes we can get emotional, but I demand respect for members of this parliament, be it those supporting the ruling coalition or members of the opposition or the independent members.
"When the minister makes one statement in an interview and sends us a contradictory document ... and when we ask about it, we don't want to hear it's a nonsensical question."
In direct response to the criticisms, Duncan said a minister "is not a lackey, a child to be interrogated, questioned or berated in Parliament. If I read the rules correctly, the minister is an equal participant in the debate. I've used solid words and I received solid words. The words 'nonsensical' and 'nonsense' are words used in the dictionary. Sometimes it comes out rougher than it should, but I resist being interrogated."
He apologised later for his choice of words and proceeded to answer the questions posed.
The BTA report
Marlin used the BTA report as the basis of his presentation, raising a number of issues. He said the 21-page report prepared by the BTA Committee showed that during the "BTA II" period a total of 2,141 applications had been filed: 683 under Category I, of which 207 had been approved; 567 under Category II, of which 67 had been approved; and 891 under Category III, none of which had been approved.
Marlin said an "alarming" number of 826 of the 2,141 applications had been fraudulent. Marlin noted that the BTA Review Committee had advised the Minister to submit these files to the Prosecutor's Office for handling and/or further advice on how to proceed, as the 826 files had violated Article 24 of the Ordinance regulating Admittance and Expulsion and Articles 203 and 230 of the Penal Code.
Marlin said the committee had advised that 151 files in Category I and 106 in Category II that were suspected of fraud, but in which everything else was in order, be placed on hold until the Minister consulted with the Prosecutor.
On the issue of bogus companies and fraudulent documents, Marlin said the committee mentioned "no less than 1,228" files that were suspected of fraud, in the sense that the employer mentioned in the file was not the actual employer or the person who signed as guarantor was considered suspicious because the same person had signed for many other persons.
Also, some 70 companies have been listed as bogus companies because they filed for many more BTA applicants than the companies normally would have, Marlin said. "According to the report, at least one businessman has declared to the committee that he makes his company available to third parties who then apply for residence and work permits for individuals. These persons, once they obtain these permits, can then go out on their own and work or find a job somewhere."
Marlin alluded to page 13 of the report, which stated that many files in Category III had a so-called "Letter of Acceptance" for "Brooks Category II" inserted in them. He said "this form was to seek the cooperation of the Minister of Labour and further declares that the applicant in question has submitted all pertinent and relevant documents for the first application."
He also asked about the Census Office refusing to register certain persons in possession of BTA permits.
NA MP George Pantophlet asked about a person holding a BTA permit being denied a driver's licence.
NA MP Dr. Lloyd Richardson asked whether deportation had started and whether persons could resubmit for residence permits under the regular system if it was determined that the employer was at fault.
Laveist said he was concerned that some employers "will do whatever it takes" to "continue the abuse of employees." He said his heart went out to workers wanting to become legal citizens "and doing what they have to do to become legal, but their employer neglects to take up their responsibility by not signing for that employee, by underpaying them and continuing to have them work overtime and not paying them their overtime.
"That is an abuse that I do not subscribe to. The intention of the BTA seems to have been thrown into a controversy and I just want to bring a sensible fair closure to what has turned out to be an unfortunate situation resulting in many persons living in a state of limbo."
He asked whether persons who had paid bogus employers to file for them would have to pay "another thunder load" of money "to pay government institutions."
Democratic Party (DP) MP Roy Marlin said it was important that Parliament be given an historical overview of how BTA came about and why? He also asked Duncan to outline his policies and plans for the Immigration and Naturalisation Services and how these would help to prevent a reoccurrence of the situation that had led to the BTA and would encourage persons living under the radar to register.
Roy Marlin said if this issue of illegal immigration were not brought under control it would affect the functioning of government as it related to infrastructure, social facilities, health and education. He stressed that Duncan's policies over the next few years must be tailored in such a way as to prevent the need to have another "mass registration" of undocumented immigrants.
He also asked whether there was still need for dual registration of persons who applied for work and residence permits and whether this process couldn't be synchronised. "We want to build a country and we have to start making things a bit easier for the administration of government," Roy Marlin.
Independent MP Frans Richardson asked whether a decree had been issued to extend the life of the committee, which had been slated to expire as of July 21, yet had submitted a report close to mid-August.
If the decree wasn't issued, Richardson asked, then does it mean that the committee's report is null and void?
He said the BTA extension project had not been intended for first-time applicants and asked whether Duncan was aware of the tremendous risk of having to accommodate the unknown number of new BTA permits. He also asked why there was no mention in the report of how many new first time applicants had been encountered.
Independent MP Patrick Illidge requested that the minister elaborate on how the BTA project had come about. He said St. Maarten was "dealing with a compounded problem that had existed for many years." He said "a good decision" had been taken to tackle the problem through BTA. "This matter has lived a life and it's time that it is put to rest."
DP MP Leroy de Weever said he understood the dilemma facing St. Maarten. He asked the minister when St. Maarten could expect to see some sort of repatriation of the persons whose permits had been denied. He said the law did not say that persons who had paid the processing fee were entitled to a permit. He said persons were well aware that if they "do not fit in the framework of the law of the land you have to leave ? if not willingly then forcefully."
De Weever said politics should not be played with the immigration situation.
The process
Duncan said he had not initiated the BTA process. He said he had met the process when he entered office. He said former Netherlands Antilles Justice Minister Magali Jacoba initially had planned to visit St. Maarten on October 8, but later, after 10/10/10, said she was not authorised to come. Duncan said he had been "forced" to extend the BTA period because of this.
He said that as Justice Minister he has discretionary power to handle certain issues as they pertained to the BTA and he challenged William Marlin "or anyone to prove that I cannot use my discretionary powers."
"If you want to make it a political football then we can do that, but we will lose respect for each other," Duncan said.
With regard to the "Letters of Acceptance" inserted in some BTA files, the minister admitted that some of his staffers had broken the law as it pertained to the BTA process by fraudulently changing documents. He said one staffer had taken home files, copied them and changed the dates on them, all of which he said constituted fraud.
Duncan said he had no sympathy for the applicants who had paid out money to bogus employers or other persons during the process. He said, "People deliberately took the risk and paid US $1,000 to $1,500 to people who they know were not their real employers."
On the issue of "manpower companies (employment agencies), Duncan said discrepancies had been found with the manpower companies that signed for many workers.
He said the prosecutor and the police had been called in concerning fraudulent issues in relation to the BTA. The Prosecutor's Office, he added, is aware of the BTA report and will decide whether to prosecute.
He said the number of persons who had filed for permits was being exaggerated when it was said that thousands of persons had filed for BTA permits.
On the issue of residence and work permits, Duncan said he had been engaged in talks with Labour Minister Cornelius de Weever on the synchronisation of the process.
Friday's meeting was held on the request of National Alliance (NA) on August 30. It began on Monday, continued on Tuesday and ended yesterday, Friday.
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